Mathew Klickstein, the author of “Slimed!: An Oral History of Nickelodeon’s Golden Age”, has brought together over 250 of the creative forces that helped create Nickelodeon. Through a series of hundreds of interviews, he is able to detail just what made Nickelodeon’s Golden Age so golden.
Now, together with Nick legend Marc Summers, Mathew is bringing these people together for a one of a kind special event. On September 27th, creators, stars, writers, producers and musicians from classic Nick shows of the 80s and 90s, will appear for a once in a lifetime celebration.
I had the pleasure of chatting with Mathew about his new book and the Slimed! event. A couple of months in the making, I’m beyond thrilled to finally share it with you guys.
What initially interested you in telling this particular story in television history? How did it all start?
I went to film school in LA and right out of school I was working in film and television. I was doing some journalism work as well and setting up this network for myself in L.A. I wasn’t very happy there and around 2008 when the economy collapsed, we were hit with that writers’ strike by the Writers Guild. It directly affected me and my roommate and things were just getting really difficult. I just decided to start all over again and decided to leave LA. It was kind of a rebirth for myself and I needed to figure out what I wanted to do next.
I just decided to focus more on books again. I was trying to do something that I could be an expert at. I was trying to figure out what that could be. I realized there was room to do a book about Nickelodeon because no one had really done a book about Nickelodeon. I just thought it would be something fun and interesting for our generation, something no one had done yet. There was an opening for someone to do it and I just started to tell people I was gonna write a book about Nickelodeon. I didn’t know how to execute that at the time. It was a couple of years before I could start taking it seriously.
It was kind of a personal thing. I love Nickelodeon, I grew up on Nickelodeon. But it was also a professional thing because no one had really written about Nickelodeon yet.
You’re kind of living the dream of every Nick kid out there. Do you consider yourself a “90s Nick Kid”?
Yes and no. It’s funny but we’ve had differences of opinion with the media because it’s really 80s and 90s. I mean You Can’t Do That On Television was the 70s so a lot of these shows are 80s. Hey Dude was late 80s, Nick Arcade was late 80s, and Double Dare was 86. The 90s aspect is something like mid-90s so it’s more like 80s and early 90s nostalgia. It keeps getting pushed to the 90s because it’s more marketable. I’m an 80s/90s kid. A lot of the movies that I think about from my childhood are like The Karate Kid, Gremlin, Terminator, Robocop, and Revenge of the Nerds… I was pretty young when these were coming out but these were the things I was watching and into.
I was 9 in 1990 so nostalgia for me was 80s and early 90s.
It’s kind of a Golden Age for television, quality wise.
How would you describe the tone of the book for someone thinking of reading it? Is it a more behind the scenes look or a celebration of the network and the people who made it possible?
Everyone that was involved knew that this was not going to be a puff piece. I was disappointed by Warren Littlefield’s Oral History that came out right around when I was working on this. I wanted this book to be something where there were good things and bad things. Nickelodeon has a very complex story and narrative and frankly, it would make a good movie. It’s got a little bit of everything in it. I didn’t want it to be just a celebration or nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake. There’s education in there and I think a lot of readers will read it and say “Oh, I never knew that about Nickelodeon.” The way television works or the history of cable and marketing, I think the story is so rich. Nickelodeon was basically the second cable channel of all time for the most part. They were really learning how cable television works. It was very revolutionary of them to think “Let’s make a channel just for kids.” At the time it was very pioneering.
Ultimately, I would like this book to be a little bit of everything for everyone. I want people to read it and say “Oh, that’s so fun.” or “Oh, I remember that episode.” I want it to be something that can be taught in a class because Nickelodeon has such resonance, even for people who didn’t watch it.
I got together with Jason Zimbler recently who played Ferguson on Clarissa Explains It All and we met up with this girl. She never watched Nickelodeon but from the stuff we were talking about she was aware of it. Even if you didn’t watch these shows, you knew of it and knew what it was.
The people who made Nickelodeon and these shows are very fascinating, funny, strange and quirky people. They’re characters and I think they have some very compelling stories to read and I think people are going to be very engaged.
Is that why you chose the “Oral History” format?
That’s a really good question. When I was first thinking of doing this I wanted it to be more in line with Tom Wolfe, or a real hero of mine Michael Azerrad, who wrote a really fantastic book “Our Band Could Be Your Life.” I think it’s one of the best non-fiction books that’s come out in the last 20 years. Each chapter was about a different band and I really wanted this book to be like that…where each chapter would be about different shows and almost tell it like it’s a short story. True creative non-fiction.
The more I talked with some of the editors the idea of doing it as an Oral History came up. I personally like Oral Histories. I really enjoy the SNL one, I thought the MTV one was pretty good, and there have been other great oral histories.
It made sense to do it as an oral history.
I’m a little conflicted over it, personally, as you can imagine as a writer yourself or anyone reading this as a writer. Part of me feels like I didn’t really write it because it’s not my words. It was difficult for me to call myself the author of this book. But I’m also a filmmaker and I’ve made documentaries in the past, a feature length documentary and short ones, so I thought more of the process was like making a documentary. I had to find the talent and the subject matter, I had to create the story, I had to find people to help me out with transcribing, I had to go through everything to edit it together. Putting the book together was very much like editing a documentary.
I really liked the format.
Yeah, I think that’s really important too. I knew I wanted to do something different with this book just because Nickelodeon was so unique. The people I was talking to were heroes of mine in a lot of different ways. The Adventures of Pete and Pete was something very special to a lot of us and it’s never been done before or since. When I was talking to Will McRobb and Katherine Dieckmann, who is just one of the coolest women you’ve ever met, she’s so awesome and amazing; I really wanted to do something that they would be proud of. They were my audience. I wanted the people I was talking to, to be impressed and proud of what I did.
It’s funny because Marc Summers didn’t know I was doing the book that way when he wrote the foreword. In the foreword he kind of ends it talking about Nickelodeon. He ended it with a challenge to me that I attempted, which was to deconstruct Nickelodeon.
As someone who grew up watching these people, what does it mean to you to be able to talk to them?
There was a part of me when I was talking to them in interviewer mode that I was able to not be a fanboy like “Oh my God, I’m talking to Marc Summers!”
That’s probably what would be going through my head.
Yeah, I really wanted to be able to converse with them and ask them real questions and challenge them. And keep my composure while talking to them. It’s like being an actor and going into that professional journalist mode. And I knew they were giving me their time. A lot of people like Marc Summers are busy people. I didn’t want to be just fumbling over myself and I wanted to be composed and prepared and I think they really appreciate that. I think that’s why I was able to do the book, especially in the beginning. However, looking back on it, I did have my jumping up and down moments like “Yeah, I just talked to Marc Summers.”
Talking to John Kricfalusi was really amazing for me because Ren & Stimpy was special to me as a kid. I had two Ren & Stimpy shirts, not just one. And I had a Ren & Stimpy birthday. That was amazing to get to do that.
Talking to Janeane Garofalo was pretty neat, I always admired her. And she turned out to be really great to talk to. She was very smart and funny.
The short version of the answer is that I’m a professional and I know how to do this. I’ve talked to other amazing people in the past and so I was able to keep composed but certainly there were times afterwards where I couldn’t believe it.
Was there any show or person you wanted to focus on that didn’t work out?
There was no show that I wasn’t able to focus on. I think I got everything in there that I wanted. I originally turned in about 300,000 words which is just too big. So it’s about 1/3rd of what I originally finished. I think ultimately it’s a better book because of it. I took the first few chapters out and decided to do something different with it. On some level it’s a shame because some of the You Can’t Do That on Television stuff got cut, some of the Out of Control stuff got cut, like Pinwheel and where Nick came from got cut. But it’s a book you can carry around now and it’s more accessible.
As far as people I didn’t get a chance to talk to… I really would have liked to talk to Arlene Klasky. She was one of the creators of Rugrats. For whatever reason, I mean I don’t know her so I can’t begrudge her for this, but she did not want to talk to me. I don’t really know why. I talked to everyone else from Rugrats. I had other people from the show and people very high up at Nicktoons try to get her and that’s understandable. She has her reasons. But it would have been better to get her in there.
I also tried to get Alanis Morissette because of You Can’t Do That on Television but unfortunately, right as we were getting going, she had a new album that dropped and she was so busy touring all over the world. Her management was very, very helpful and responsive about trying to make it happen.
So those are the only two that I didn’t really get that I would have liked to talk to.
I got another 250 though so that’s pretty good.
I think that’s very good.
*laughs*
I know we mentioned before that Marc Summers was very involved, and I know you can’t pick favorites or anything… but I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how he ended up doing the foreword to the book.
That’s a really good question too. We always knew that Marc was the face of Nickelodeon. Melissa Joan Hart, obviously, was a little later on but I think overall, for the Golden Age, you think of Marc Summers when you think of Nickelodeon. You think of Double Dare when you think of Slime. We knew that he was somebody that we wanted to be involved with this. I think his foreword is excellent. It made me decide not to do an introduction. I was really glad when I read Marc’s foreword. He read it to me over the phone and I was tearing up. It was really good, he did an excellent job. I was so excited to be able to put it in my book. We were all so amazed that he did that.
Marc is incredibly generous. Every single person I spoke to, across the board, had amazing things to say about Marc Summers. People were just like if you ever need anything you would go to Marc’s office and he was just there for you and would always take time to talk to you. He’s still like that today. He’s one of the people I became close with. I’ve hung out with him, we’ve talked about personal things, and he’s kind of like an uncle or big brother to me. He’s just extremely generous and incredibly nice. It’s almost baffling because he was a game show host and you would think they’d all be total douchebags but he was the complete opposite. Everyone I talked to agrees that Marc is this amazing person.
That makes me so happy to hear. He’s kind of a hero for me. I bought his book and I still watch everything he does and it just makes me so happy to hear that he’s such a good guy.
He really, really is. That’s one of the things that I learned while doing this. When people ask me ya know, what are the things that shocked or surprised you? And one of the things I learned is that Marc Summers is an amazing person inside and out.
What’s your opinion on things like The 90s Are All That on TeenNick or Nickreboot.com that are around now for people of our generation that are craving that nostalgia?
On one level I’m glad they’re showing their Golden Age shows again, even though we’ve all seen a lot of complaints like “Oh, why aren’t you showing this show?” But whoever was choosing what shows to show and what not to show probably could have done a better job. I don’t want to bemoan the work they’re doing and I know there are things that are out of their control but yeah, I think it’s good but why not produce stuff like that again? Why isn’t there any original material on Nickelodeon that’s like that? Instead of showing Pete and Pete again, why not make a show like Pete and Pete again?
I’m hoping this book helps remind the execs at Nickelodeon what they used to do and what they used to be and maybe they’ll think “Maybe we should take more risks again.”
Did you have a favorite show or game show on Nick?
My mom raised me to not like game shows as a kid and I’m still not a fan but like a lot of people I loved watching Marc Summers and Harvey and Robin on Double Dare. I loved watching the obstacle course. Same with Nick Arcade, I loved watching the video zone. I’ve been trying to be more diplomatic about what my favorite shows are but lately I’m like, I’m just gonna admit it. Adventures of Pete and Pete and Ren & Stimpy were really special and when I was doing interviews, those were the two shows that came up the most. Double Dare was fun, I really liked Salute Your Shorts, Clarissa Explains It All and Hey Dude, but Pete and Pete then and now with the camera work and the music they used was incredible. That’s the kind of music you liked as a kid and will listen to now. It was amazing they had that kind of stuff on a kid’s show. I mean Iggy Pop was on there and Steve Buscemi as regulars. Those shows were really special.
I was rereading the book last night and I saw something that made me think of this. When Nickelodeon Studios closed down and they were auctioning set pieces off, what would you have taken home if you could pick anything?
That’s a really good question.
I don’t even know how I would answer it.
I think the easy one is Olmec. It would definitely be cool to have Olmec in the house even if I wasn’t as in to Legends of the Hidden Temple.
I feel like nobody ever won that game.
*laughs* Yeah. I don’t really know. The only one that really comes to my head is that big nose from the Double Dare obstacle course. I originally spoke to people who weren’t on Nickelodeon but were child actors like Mayim Bialik and Dustin Diamond to get their thoughts on Nickelodeon. He said something I agreed with. The appealing thing about the Double Dare obstacle course was that you had these larger than life things like a large hamster wheel or a nose and I think those things were really cool. I always really liked the giant nose. It’s weird, it’s a little scary, it’s strange, and it’s disgusting putting your hand up in there. I think the giant nose from Double Dare is what I would take home with me.
Would you have been able to tackle that obstacle course? Would you have won?
I think I’m gonna have to go with what Kenan Thompson said when we met. I was a little huskier back then and I think I would have been one of those people who just kept stopping and trying to eat everything.
Lastly let’s talk about the event. How were you able to take this to the next level and turn this into a live event?
I gotta say doing the live event is probably the most difficult thing in my life. It’s been harder than the book. It’s been so hair-pulling and nerve-wracking. It’s been nearly impossible and I’m gonna be so happy when it’s done. It’s been a learning process for me. I’m not getting paid for it and it’s been a lot of work and a lot of phone calls trying to talk to these people and their agents and managers and it’s almost like I had to start all over again. Working on the panels and wondering if we have too many people and videos. We’ve been working with Viacom to figure out what clips we can show and the music…there’s no budget and everyone is working for free. They’re coming out for free. It’s been really, really crazy and all I hope is that I can enjoy this thing without freaking out.
I can guarantee you that anyone that comes will be blown away. You’re gonna get to see Marc Summers and Harvey and Robin and The Beets are gonna be playing live for the first time ever. Jim Jinkins just confirmed and everyone from Clarissa Explains It All will be there as well.
What are you most looking forward to?
I think, like everyone else, seeing The Beets perform is gonna be amazing. Fred Newman is an incredible person. He wrote the book on mouth sounds. He was the voice of Skeeter and Mr. Dink on Doug and now he’s on Prairie Home Companion and he’s ditching the tour just to come to our event. Like Marc Summers, he’s so generous and he loves Nickelodeon and Doug so much that he wanted to be there. So I think seeing him live doing the Doug music is gonna be incredible. Along with Marc Summers hosting live, I think that’s gonna be the thing that people are gonna be talking about.
What can you tease about what fans can expect? You mentioned something about audience participation and meet and greets…
I think that’s something that’s gonna be really cool. We’re still trying to figure it out. I’m very proud and happy how it’s come together and it’s gonna be a great event. It’s gonna be a bit chaotic, there’s still a lot of things that are up in the air. I don’t know what questions I’m gonna ask people. I’m gonna be kind of surprised about how spontaneous some things will be. There’s going to be reunions for some people who haven’t seen each other in so long and these are people that want to meet the fans and want to do this.
Afterwards, anyone who wants to hang around, and this includes some of the panelists, can hang out in the lounge. I think that’s when things like pictures and autographs will happen. It will be chaotic with all the fans but we’ll see how it goes. I think it’s gonna be fun, crazy, and a little goofy but that’s what old school Nickelodeon was all about.
I want to thank Mathew for being so incredibly helpful and accommodating these past two months. I really appreciate it!
Only a handful of tickets are left for the Nickelodeon on 92nd Street: Slimed! event so be sure to get yours before they’re all gone! For more information, including a list of confirmed panelists, check out the details here.
Slimed: An Oral History of Nickelodeon’s Golden Age will be released on September 24th. It’s fantastic, so be sure to pick that one up.
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